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Hello Dr. Baughman,

I am working as a volunteer minister with an Indian Tribe in Alberta.  They
have a suicide rate of one person per week!  I, when I was last at the
reservation, asked a few questions and found that psychotopic drugs were
pretty rampant in the elementary schools, K-grade 6, and Junior High schools
7-9.  No data available about older kids and adults, however I suspect they
are in wide use throughout the tribe.  The big Alberta psychiatric hospital
is about spitting distance from the reservation.

[Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD:
they victimize
every group within government orbit; all who are disenfranchised,
vulnerable. Big Pharma pays government for this access, the psychiatrists
are "pushers" who masquerade as physicians providing "medical care"]

I am looking for documentation on the connection of suicides and these types
of drugs

[Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD:
there are lots of such links but not, specifically on my
web site. David Healy, the rare, psychopharmacologist, still unbought and
free to perform and speak true science is clear on the point the the SSRI,
antidepressants are causing a vast increase in the number of suicides, that
is, they are causing suicides. I will put you in touch with my allie Dawn
Ryder, friend and ally or the organization, ASPIRE.]

Fairly easy to
understand terms.  I am aware there is a connection on these and am
wondering if you have any links that I can checkout to present information
to the band leaders?

You are doing, by the way, a terrific job.

[Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD:
see Healy interview below with Coles on the subject. Drugs are
poisons, a point the public fails to realized; a point Big Pharma wants kept
from the public.
Ch 5 indust/ngo/ppcartel/pharm industry/lilly/antidepress/ suicide]


David Healy interview of Jonathan Cole (Director, Psychopharmacology
Research Centre, NIMH; Chair in Psychiatry, McLean Hospital), December 1994.

Excerpted by Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD, 9/13/99

p 258 Healy: What about a group of patients who may get worse on it

Cole: Yes.  I'm one of the authors of the suicide paper.I didn't realize it
would be quite that famous.p 259Yes, I have seen people, at least a
handful, that clearly got more agitated and got weird thoughts and suicidal
drive.  Tony Rothschild.found three people who had jumped off something
while on fluoxetine, who didn't kill themselves, and agreed to take it
again.  He re-created the same desperate driven quality with fluoxetine.

Healy: Is it a form of akathesia"

Cole: I think it probably is but whether you get the neuromuscular form or
whether it's purely psychic I don't know.  One patient.was so distressed by
a thought telling her to kill herself over and over again, .I told her to
take some Ativan and go to sleep and she did and within 36 hours it had
passed.  At the end of it she said 'gee, I've been depressed for 21 years,
and suicidal a lot but that was ridiculous.'  She thought it was clearly
different than anything she had ever experienced before which is why I put
her case and my name on the paper.  Lilly doesn't believe it.Plus about 1-2%
of the people on fluoxetine, and none of the people on trazodone, called up
and said I've got suicidal ideas that I haven't had before and another 1-2%
phoned up and said I've got crazy ideas that I hadn't had before.So I think
it's rare and the drug has certainly prevented more suicides than it's
cause.  I don't thin it's a bad drug, I just think it does funny things
every once in a while.

p. 260  Cole:  I got so pissed about Lilly saying 'don't you agree that
all the doctors know that fluoxetine doesn't cause suicide' that I did a
survey of everybody in the Mass. Psychiatric Society, who'd answer the
telephone about whether they had ever had or thought they'd had a patient
who had been made suicidal by fluoxetine, or whether they had heard of
anybody, and if they had, did they think they were prescribing less now than
they were before.  You could make a case that if they had some personal
experience with fluoxetine in a patient who they thought got suicidal, they
were more likely to warn patient and be a little more gun shy.

Healy: Sometimes, ideas just get into popular consciousness and other times
they don't.  You would have thought that suicidal ideation would have killed
of fluoxetine but it hasn't.

Cole: But the company probably did exactly the right thing which was to
stone wall and the FDA didn't do anything.  The company was publishing
meta-analyses of everything in the world - 800 patients in 6-week trials
with no increase in suicidal ideation.

p 261 Cole:  The other wave I detect is that cognitive - behavior therapy
is rising in competition to drugs.There's now been the three hospital's
trial comparing cognitive therapy, interpersonal therapy, tofranil and
placebo.  Tofranil is better but I keep wondering whether they didn't do
something wrong, somewhere.  They tried to train social workers to do these
therapies and I think there is a problem in skills transfers and because of
this I think the non-drug therapies didn't do as well as they might have if
they had been done by people who had been trained to do them who thought it
was their favorite therapy therapeutic bias of therapist also of patient to
be considered.there was a funny business about the psychotherapies doing no
better than placebo and then in the last two weeks everybody got better -
like they had to  p 262 please their therapists.There have been enough
other studies of cognitive therapies that I'm prepared to believe it works,
whatever the NIMH study shows.

If the behavioral therapies were able to be shown to give people increased,
inner strength to deal with life in the future, I would be impressed and be
inclined to refer patients more often than I am now.  On the other hand,
behavior therapies are not cheap and not always readily accessible.  They
end up being more expensive than pills.  Pills are not cheap but they tend
more often to be paid for by insurances.

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